In Red: Unlike you I don't assume every tv host/radio hot/analyst doesn't have contacts or is lying.
But you were taking about how scouts and GMs had him ranked not media types. In fact you specifically eliminated them and pushed forward the others. The NFL would frown on public evaluations of another teams players so you never see those made public and those who choose to ostracize their own as Kromer did soon find themselves out of a job or working in Buffalo like he did and as an OL coach again.
As for the media in general they don't like Cutler so why would they be leaping for joy to publish anything postive about him? IMHO one of the biggest problems with Cutler's detractors is they all let the media do their thinking for them instead of studying the man's game and critiquing it fairly as his coaches do. Do you honestly believe Pace and Fox think they have no better that the 18th to 20th best QB running their offense?
I have no problem with your opinions Ric and I never have. It's when you make unsupported statements to support them instead of fact that you and I disagree.
Green: I'd say 43% is a good portion of the time. I know you have a severe denial of what Cutler is and isn't and I'm more then happy to not turn this into 10 pages argument of how we don't agree.
It is huh? Well then if the Bears winning percentage was .430 or 7-9 each year would you say they win a good portion of the time? I don't think you would and no one else would either. For maybe two seasons he had AJ and Marshall as his two starting WRs. That's it. The other 5 he's been lucky if he had one who was even starting caliber let alone at a Pro Bowl level like those two.
Once again it's not about your opinion of Cutler which I accept it's about how you either avoid or twist facts to represent something they don't in order to back it. Less than half is not most or a good portion of anything really. If you loaned me $100 and I paid you back $43 could I tell you I paid most of it back and you'd agree? Probably not huh? But if you do think that way slide me $100 will ya.
Purple, didn't you start the clairvoyance by saying he would be signed the next day?
Yes I did and yes it is. Now THAT is a fact! You're right it's pure supposition with a bit of exaggeration tossed in so let's just say there would in all likelihood be many team who would be interested and probably for as much or more than he makes now if his agent played it right. I doubt he'd be unsigned for long. Hell even the Broncos might like him back after they watched what Sanchez and Siemian did last week.
Teal: How many qb's in the league for 10 years have no little to no playoff experience that you would want on the Bears roster?
None which is why for now I'm quite content to give Cutler his shot for the next two seasons. If he's still floundering like he did many times before last season then we won't have to disagree anymore, or at least not about Cutler, in all likelihood he'll be gone and we'll be looking at a new QB in 2018. I just don't think that will happen is all. I still believe he's a lot better than you believe he is and the next two years should tell which one of us is right.
Now whose buying the next round, you or me? I lost track.
But the media is the one feeding that information to us. And you are aware of that.
Stop, just stop. Most and good portion are not the same. Good portion is not a hard number; neither is most, but most is at least 51%(rounding up), and really indicates something far greater. I didn't say most; who twisting what now?
We agree that he wouldn't take long to be signed, but no team that is set up for a playoff run is signing him, A team that is in desperate need of a QB is, and those teams normally aren't one piece away.
Exactly. No team, or fan, is looking at a 10+ year vet w/little to no playoff experience and thinking they want to build around that. Nor should the Bears, or the Bears fanbase. You like him, that's fine, but don't assume that everyone does or that it's definitive that he is the best the Bears can or could have had in recent history.
Teams have taken players well within the Bears ability to get(not trading up to get a top 5, or even 15 pick) that could have played similar Cutlers level, w/out the team paying him through the nose; they just needed to be looking for it ahead of time. Those guys could have sat/backed up Cutler...and easily outplayed on a cheaper contract any vet they signed, outside of McCown. But if you aren't getting a "surefire" top 5 guy, I'd rather them having him sit behind Cutler learning then coming in day 1 and starting. Here's the list
2011: Andy D , Colin K
2012: Brock O, Russell W
2013 no qb in this draft was worth taking 2014 Teddy B-side
That's also not including guys that could have played just backup and played as well as Campbell, Claussen, and how Hoyer will play if he gets a shot(b/c he's terrible). Guys like Mallett, Foles, McCarron, Jimmy G all could have outplayed everyone except McCown, who had a horseshoe up his ass season.
The draft has started to correct itself on when and where to draft qb's; in part imo, b/c of the lack of pro style college football programs. If you don't know how to rate them and they don't just jump off the screen(Marriotta) then you aren't going to take them high. But that doesn't mean they cannot be pro qb's, or good ones. The NFL has also seen there is a way to use them thanks to Cam, Colin and Russell. It's pass first, when things break scramble....the key is the ability to throw b/c otherwise you end up w/Tebow or RGIII and you end up w/no passing offense at all.
QUOTE "ALEX"; " "Here we are, 'fighting' against trolling, but we have King of.... what would be the right word?"
Ummm, probably "Tradition". You see Ric and I have been debating this for what Ric, 5 years or maybe 6? He's losing ground though because Cutler is getting better. Now he can only say he's "average" as opposed to he "sucks". LOL I figure in two more years I might get him up to "pretty OK" but still not "great". LOL even more.
We have somewhat polar opposite views of out starting QB using the term "somewhat" somewhat loosely here of course but a football season wouldn't be a football season without at least one of these debates between us. It's not actually trolling either. That takes an unsupported comment purposely intended to provoke an argument and we aren't arguing. We "debate" opinion vs fact we never actually argue.
I respect Ric's opinion even if I disagree with him but I refuse to let him substitute that for facts. In my world there's a difference between opinion and fact and I'm "somewhat" (there's that word again) anal about that like most analytics are. I'm quite sure that's where the word probably came from. That makes sense doesn't it and it sounds better than asshole. Plus Houston is the only one around here with an MSU and Ric can't borrow it. That would be cheating.
It's all part of a long standing tradition and if let him get away with it he'll think he's back at DaBears where I'm not having to put up with a Troll Force that's much worse than I am. I don't want to subject him to that especially after he said he actually missed our debates. We're all in this together and I'm just trying to make him feel at home. I'm just not sure who owes who a beer though so we may have to flip for it because that shit does make a man thirsty.
Check out the bottom of the posts. We each added our obligatory bro hug smilies.
It's not serious. It's just tradition.
To be fair I never thought he sucked, I thought the trade was good at the time, but to expensive. I just never thought he was irreplaceable. That he somehow made the players around him better. And so far he's proven me correct, he's an average qb(at times slightly above) that needs all the pieces in place to be at his best, coaches, players etc. That is not irreplaceable. You take that guy, and you build around him; and you look for something better. You cannot settle on average in the NFL, especially at the QB position.
QUOTE "ALEX"; " "Here we are, 'fighting' against trolling, but we have King of.... what would be the right word?"
Ummm, probably "Tradition". You see Ric and I have been debating this for what Ric, 5 years or maybe 6? He's losing ground though because Cutler is getting better. Now he can only say he's "average" as opposed to he "sucks". LOL I figure in two more years I might get him up to "pretty OK" but still not "great". LOL even more.
We have somewhat polar opposite views of out starting QB using the term "somewhat" somewhat loosely here of course but a football season wouldn't be a football season without at least one of these debates between us. It's not actually trolling either. That takes an unsupported comment purposely intended to provoke an argument and we aren't arguing. We "debate" opinion vs fact we never actually argue.
I respect Ric's opinion even if I disagree with him but I refuse to let him substitute that for facts. In my world there's a difference between opinion and fact and I'm "somewhat" (there's that word again) anal about that like most analytics are. I'm quite sure that's where the word probably came from. That makes sense doesn't it and it sounds better than asshole. Plus Houston is the only one around here with an MSU and Ric can't borrow it. That would be cheating.
It's all part of a long standing tradition and if let him get away with it he'll think he's back at DaBears where I'm not having to put up with a Troll Force that's much worse than I am. I don't want to subject him to that especially after he said he actually missed our debates. We're all in this together and I'm just trying to make him feel at home. I'm just not sure who owes who a beer though so we may have to flip for it because that shit does make a man thirsty.
Check out the bottom of the posts. We each added our obligatory bro hug smilies.
It's not serious. It's just tradition.
To be fair I never thought he sucked, I thought the trade was good at the time, but to expensive. I just never thought he was irreplaceable. That he somehow made the players around him better. And so far he's proven me correct, he's an average qb(at times slightly above) that needs all the pieces in place to be at his best, coaches, players etc. That is not irreplaceable. You take that guy, and you build around him; and you look for something better. You cannot settle on average in the NFL, especially at the QB position.
I know. But I had to phrase it that way to get the rest of the line to work. LOL
I don't think he's irreplaceable either I just know we haven't even come close to doing it yet so it's inevitable that he'll be the stating QB. That being the case I prefer to look for any silver lining I can that tells me he's improving, and he is. More so each year in fact.
Ric I would bet you $100 that every QB in the NFL needs the right pieces in place to be his best without exception. Take that away and even the best will and have looked very average. It's really no great secret that the best NFL QBs are playing for the best teams and organizations is it. Now is that the QB or is it the team and the organization as a whole?
I believe it's the latter and as at least one example I offer Drew Brees. How well have the Saints done since losing key player in FA, to injury, or retirement. Another might be Phllip Rivers who some would call a pretty fair QB but his record is pretty average and he's never been to a SB either. The team makes the QB not the other way around. Unlike the NBA one star like a Jordan or a LeBron or a Kobe can't carry a whole team of 22 guys.
Plus Houston is the only one around here with an MSU and Ric can't borrow it. That would be cheating. 
