New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire?

[bearsinhouston]

Nov 26, 2024 19:40:37 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 26, 2024 18:17:26 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I know nobody wants to admit it, but it was understandable why Flus was back this year. He showed promise getting the team last year to over perform. Add in the McCaskeys were never firing him with 3 years left on his deal, and never hiring Harbaugh, nor do I believe Harbaugh ever had any interest in coming here and coaching essentially an unknown at QB over going to LA and coaching Herbert...who exactly were you firing him for? Do I think Poles wanted him back? Sure. Do I think Poles wouldn't have upgraded if he had a legit option to do so? Based on his history I'm not so sure he wouldn't have. Either way, he's shown a willingness to move on from mistakes.

I agree with all of that.  And also I keep thinking that we don't know who wanted what, as far as George, Warren, Poles and Cunningham.  People are just angry with where we're at right now and want to fire everyone.  

I don't know. Other than when he first got hired, I was not a fan of Flus. Even then, I was ok with him but never thought he was going to be a great HC. Now I'm not saying that to say I'm right. God knows someone that is wrong most of the time should never think like that. All I am saying is that for whatever reason, I never thought he was that good, and last year I was hoping to see him replaced. It would have been nice to see him be a great coach but it didn't happen and it certainly isn't going to happen now. The well worn "Flush Flus" has been earned

[JABF]

Nov 26, 2024 20:09:50 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

Nov 26, 2024 19:40:37 GMT -6 JABF said:

I agree with all of that.  And also I keep thinking that we don't know who wanted what, as far as George, Warren, Poles and Cunningham.  People are just angry with where we're at right now and want to fire everyone.  

I don't know. Other than when he first got hired, I was not a fan of Flus. Even then, I was ok with him but never thought he was going to be a great HC. Now I'm not saying that to say I'm right. God knows someone that is wrong most of the time should never think like that. All I am saying is that for whatever reason, I never thought he was that good, and last year I was hoping to see him replaced. It would have been nice to see him be a great coach but it didn't happen and it certainly isn't going to happen now. The well worn "Flush Flus" has been earned

+1
LOL, I was wanting to keep him.  In hindsight I realize I was dead wrong.  I figure this is where we find ourselves right now - what is the best path forward?  If that is firing everyone, then do that.  But hopefully the Bears are thoughtful and just get it right this time.  Can't change the past but hopefully make right decisions now.  It may very well make sense to keep Poles and try to get it right this time with the HC hire - and then finish the Poles rebuild in 2025.  They will have the resources to fix what needs fixing - and we have a QB1 who (in his 2nd season) should be a baller.  

Here's one more thing.  I totally believe Poles handed Eberflus a roster that had the player talent to be MUCH better than what we have seen this season.  Much better.  Eberflus failed to get the best out of these men.  Should Poles have seen that Eberflus wasn't the guy?  Sure.  But I'm fine if the Bears give Poles a 2nd bite of the apple to hire a second HC.  Mistakes happen.  'Flus was a mistake.  Just move on and get it right this time.

[bearsinhouston]

Nov 26, 2024 20:36:07 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 26, 2024 20:09:50 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

I don't know. Other than when he first got hired, I was not a fan of Flus. Even then, I was ok with him but never thought he was going to be a great HC. Now I'm not saying that to say I'm right. God knows someone that is wrong most of the time should never think like that. All I am saying is that for whatever reason, I never thought he was that good, and last year I was hoping to see him replaced. It would have been nice to see him be a great coach but it didn't happen and it certainly isn't going to happen now. The well worn "Flush Flus" has been earned

+1
LOL, I was wanting to keep him.  In hindsight I realize I was dead wrong.  I figure this is where we find ourselves right now - what is the best path forward?  If that is firing everyone, then do that.  But hopefully the Bears are thoughtful and just get it right this time.  Can't change the past but hopefully make right decisions now.  It may very well make sense to keep Poles and try to get it right this time with the HC hire - and then finish the Poles rebuild in 2025.  They will have the resources to fix what needs fixing - and we have a QB1 who (in his 2nd season) should be a baller.  

Here's one more thing.  I totally believe Poles handed Eberflus a roster that had the player talent to be MUCH better than what we have seen this season.  Much better.  Eberflus failed to get the best out of these men.  Should Poles have seen that Eberflus wasn't the guy?  Sure.  But I'm fine if the Bears give Poles a 2nd bite of the apple to hire a second HC.  Mistakes happen.  'Flus was a mistake.  Just move on and get it right this time.

I have the same belief, and Poles can't be happy that it is making his picks look bad. (some of them were but the roster in total is not bad)

[butkus3595]

Nov 26, 2024 20:09:50 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

Nov 26, 2024 19:40:37 GMT -6 JABF said:

I agree with all of that.  And also I keep thinking that we don't know who wanted what, as far as George, Warren, Poles and Cunningham.  People are just angry with where we're at right now and want to fire everyone.  

I don't know. Other than when he first got hired, I was not a fan of Flus. Even then, I was ok with him but never thought he was going to be a great HC. Now I'm not saying that to say I'm right. God knows someone that is wrong most of the time should never think like that. All I am saying is that for whatever reason, I never thought he was that good, and last year I was hoping to see him replaced. It would have been nice to see him be a great coach but it didn't happen and it certainly isn't going to happen now. The well worn "Flush Flus" has been earned

I never thought Flus was a guy you could win it all with, but was a solid coach to have when you are building a team up. Up until this point it seems he kept the team together and got them to play hard. Perhaps thats Poles view of it all too, I have no idea. I think the writing is on the wall though, and whether it happens this Friday, or the Monday after the season ends, Flus is a goner and everyone knows it.

[butkus3595]

Nov 26, 2024 20:36:07 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 26, 2024 20:09:50 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

I don't know. Other than when he first got hired, I was not a fan of Flus. Even then, I was ok with him but never thought he was going to be a great HC. Now I'm not saying that to say I'm right. God knows someone that is wrong most of the time should never think like that. All I am saying is that for whatever reason, I never thought he was that good, and last year I was hoping to see him replaced. It would have been nice to see him be a great coach but it didn't happen and it certainly isn't going to happen now. The well worn "Flush Flus" has been earned

+1
LOL, I was wanting to keep him.  In hindsight I realize I was dead wrong.  I figure this is where we find ourselves right now - what is the best path forward?  If that is firing everyone, then do that.  But hopefully the Bears are thoughtful and just get it right this time.  Can't change the past but hopefully make right decisions now.  It may very well make sense to keep Poles and try to get it right this time with the HC hire - and then finish the Poles rebuild in 2025.  They will have the resources to fix what needs fixing - and we have a QB1 who (in his 2nd season) should be a baller.  

Here's one more thing.  I totally believe Poles handed Eberflus a roster that had the player talent to be MUCH better than what we have seen this season.  Much better.  Eberflus failed to get the best out of these men.  Should Poles have seen that Eberflus wasn't the guy?  Sure.  But I'm fine if the Bears give Poles a 2nd bite of the apple to hire a second HC.  Mistakes happen.  'Flus was a mistake.  Just move on and get it right this time.

You could argue this team should have at least 7 wins right now and at least two of the losses are squarely on Flus. At the end of the day, thats what will be his undoing because that is what cost him the locker room.

[matsellah]

I would like to see one of two things:

1. Flus not fired.
2. If he his fired, someone other than Brown is promoted to interim HC.

First, why are we assuming that, just because Brown was moved to interim OC, that he's the best choice to be interim HC? I think we need to get that out of our brains.
Second, it would be very detrimental to move Brown to interim HC for both him AND Willaims. We need to get that into our brains.

If there is chemistry building between Brown and Williams... if Brown is implementing a scheme that works, the last thing I think you would want to do is saddle him with the duties and responsibilities of an HC... especially the interim HC of a team in virtual chaos. Nope; move them over to the side and let that thing continue, see if it bears any fruit. Then decide the future.

Ben Johnson Primer:

Ben Johnson was hired as a Offensive Quality Control Coach by Detroit BEFORE they hired Dan Campbell, who promptly promoted him to Passing Game Coordinator and then a few seasons later to Offensive Coordinator. Ben Johnson hails from South Carolina. The Panthers could possibly be looking for a new HC and they have pursued Johnson in the past. Quite heavily, too. But Johnson elected to remain in Detroit. Johnson is a geek; he graduated Top 5 of his class and has degrees in Mathematics and Computer Science from the University of North Carolina, where he was also a walk-on to their football program and was rostered as a reserve QB. His offensive coordinator at UNC was John Shoop. THE John Shoop. Shoop was also an Offensive Quality Control Coach... for the Carolina Panthers. Shoop replaced Gary Crowton in Chicago to install his "Run and Shoop" scheme as Offensive Coordinator under Dick Jauron. Dick Jauron played defensive back for the Detroit Lions. Later, he was their Defensive Coordinator and interim HC for The Lions. Ben Johnson cites both Adam Gase and Mike Martz as influences on his offensive scheme.

Poles is not getting fired. If that happens, it would elevate the franchise to new levels of ridiculousness.  On the good/bad scale, he's clearly into the good and should not be married to his only HC hire.  He's young and under his own rookie contract.  What this franchise needs, more than anything, is building consistency and Poles should -at the least- have another shot at hiring a head coach. Only this time, he needs to be free of hiring someone that meets Virginia's insane criteria.  Please don't start on the player failures, it's been done and plenty of GMs have done worse and not been fired.  Chicago Bears fanatics operate on a level unlike any other team's fanbase. It's really odd.

[JABF]

Nov 27, 2024 9:44:53 GMT -6 matsellah said:

Poles is not getting fired. If that happens, it would elevate the franchise to new levels of ridiculousness.  On the good/bad scale, he's clearly into the good and should not be married to his only HC hire.  He's young and under his own rookie contract.  What this franchise needs, more than anything, is building consistency and Poles should -at the least- have another shot at hiring a head coach. Only this time, he needs to be free of hiring someone that meets Virginia's insane criteria.  Please don't start on the player failures, it's been done and plenty of GMs have done worse and not been fired.  Chicago Bears fanatics operate on a level unlike any other team's fanbase. It's really odd.

Yeah, you're right about that.  The fans lose their minds and want "everyone fired" and just burn it all to the ground.  I get it.  They are angry to the point they lose their minds.  It is "surgery with an ax" stuff.

[bearsinhouston]

Nov 27, 2024 9:44:53 GMT -6 matsellah said:

I would like to see one of two things:

1. Flus not fired.
2. If he his fired, someone other than Brown is promoted to interim HC.

First, why are we assuming that, just because Brown was moved to interim OC, that he's the best choice to be interim HC? I think we need to get that out of our brains.
Second, it would be very detrimental to move Brown to interim HC for both him AND Willaims. We need to get that into our brains.

If there is chemistry building between Brown and Williams... if Brown is implementing a scheme that works, the last thing I think you would want to do is saddle him with the duties and responsibilities of an HC... especially the interim HC of a team in virtual chaos. Nope; move them over to the side and let that thing continue, see if it bears any fruit. Then decide the future.

Ben Johnson Primer:

Ben Johnson was hired as a Offensive Quality Control Coach by Detroit BEFORE they hired Dan Campbell, who promptly promoted him to Passing Game Coordinator and then a few seasons later to Offensive Coordinator. Ben Johnson hails from South Carolina. The Panthers could possibly be looking for a new HC and they have pursued Johnson in the past. Quite heavily, too. But Johnson elected to remain in Detroit. Johnson is a geek; he graduated Top 5 of his class and has degrees in Mathematics and Computer Science from the University of North Carolina, where he was also a walk-on to their football program and was rostered as a reserve QB. His offensive coordinator at UNC was John Shoop. THE John Shoop. Shoop was also an Offensive Quality Control Coach... for the Carolina Panthers. Shoop replaced Gary Crowton in Chicago to install his "Run and Shoop" scheme as Offensive Coordinator under Dick Jauron. Dick Jauron played defensive back for the Detroit Lions. Later, he was their Defensive Coordinator and interim HC for The Lions. Ben Johnson cites both Adam Gase and Mike Martz as influences on his offensive scheme.

Poles is not getting fired. If that happens, it would elevate the franchise to new levels of ridiculousness.  On the good/bad scale, he's clearly into the good and should not be married to his only HC hire.  He's young and under his own rookie contract.  What this franchise needs, more than anything, is building consistency and Poles should -at the least- have another shot at hiring a head coach. Only this time, he needs to be free of hiring someone that meets Virginia's insane criteria.  Please don't start on the player failures, it's been done and plenty of GMs have done worse and not been fired.  Chicago Bears fanatics operate on a level unlike any other team's fanbase. It's really odd.

And you feel that this is beyond the reach of this franchise?

[matsellah]

Nov 27, 2024 11:12:30 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

Nov 27, 2024 9:44:53 GMT -6 matsellah said:

I would like to see one of two things:

1. Flus not fired.
2. If he his fired, someone other than Brown is promoted to interim HC.

First, why are we assuming that, just because Brown was moved to interim OC, that he's the best choice to be interim HC? I think we need to get that out of our brains.
Second, it would be very detrimental to move Brown to interim HC for both him AND Willaims. We need to get that into our brains.

If there is chemistry building between Brown and Williams... if Brown is implementing a scheme that works, the last thing I think you would want to do is saddle him with the duties and responsibilities of an HC... especially the interim HC of a team in virtual chaos. Nope; move them over to the side and let that thing continue, see if it bears any fruit. Then decide the future.

Ben Johnson Primer:

Ben Johnson was hired as a Offensive Quality Control Coach by Detroit BEFORE they hired Dan Campbell, who promptly promoted him to Passing Game Coordinator and then a few seasons later to Offensive Coordinator. Ben Johnson hails from South Carolina. The Panthers could possibly be looking for a new HC and they have pursued Johnson in the past. Quite heavily, too. But Johnson elected to remain in Detroit. Johnson is a geek; he graduated Top 5 of his class and has degrees in Mathematics and Computer Science from the University of North Carolina, where he was also a walk-on to their football program and was rostered as a reserve QB. His offensive coordinator at UNC was John Shoop. THE John Shoop. Shoop was also an Offensive Quality Control Coach... for the Carolina Panthers. Shoop replaced Gary Crowton in Chicago to install his "Run and Shoop" scheme as Offensive Coordinator under Dick Jauron. Dick Jauron played defensive back for the Detroit Lions. Later, he was their Defensive Coordinator and interim HC for The Lions. Ben Johnson cites both Adam Gase and Mike Martz as influences on his offensive scheme.

Poles is not getting fired. If that happens, it would elevate the franchise to new levels of ridiculousness.  On the good/bad scale, he's clearly into the good and should not be married to his only HC hire.  He's young and under his own rookie contract.  What this franchise needs, more than anything, is building consistency and Poles should -at the least- have another shot at hiring a head coach. Only this time, he needs to be free of hiring someone that meets Virginia's insane criteria.  Please don't start on the player failures, it's been done and plenty of GMs have done worse and not been fired.  Chicago Bears fanatics operate on a level unlike any other team's fanbase. It's really odd.

And you feel that this is beyond the reach of this franchise?

See, this is what I mean by Bears fanatics.

The Chicago Bears are not a ridiculous franchise.

The league clearly seems to be a collection of "haves and have-nots"  of teams... but it's not that simple.

There are teams that do extraordinarily well in drafting, free agency, coaching hires, front office hires, infrastructure, etc.

And there are teams that are completely inept at those things.

I don't think there are any teams that are either/or at all.

The Steelers and the Patriots each have 6 Super Bowl wins but neither hold the highest regular season win–loss percentage (.576), that's the Cowboys. They hold the NFL record for most consecutive winning seasons with 20 from 1966 to 1985. During that time, they reached the playoffs 18 times, won 13 NFC East championships, and reached the Super Bowl five times. And now they suck.

But none of those teams  have the most championships.  That's the friggin' Packers. They also hold the record for the most franchise wins at 807.

They're an average to above-average team this season.

The Arizona Cardinals have the most losses by an NFL team, with 808 but have 2 NFL championships. They have never won a Super Bowl. In fact, they've only made 1 appearance, and they're technically the oldest team in the NFL.  The Detroit Lions have 4 championships but haven't won a play-off game since 1991. In the Super Bowl era, they've only been to the NFC Championship twice and have never won.  There are 11 other teams that have never won a Super Bowl and 4 of those teams have never made an appearance.

To start detailing the dealings that have led to success or utter failure in front office and coaching hires would exhaust everyone foolish enough to attempt reading it. This goes for player evaluations, busts, bad FA decisions, the list is endless. We, as fans, have routinely reminded each other of colossal blunders made by other team in GM hires, free agent acquisitions, draft trades and 1st round busts.

Within all of this, exists the Chicago Bears.

The Bears have 797 wins, 641 losses and 42 ties.  Our playoff record is 17-20.  The Chicago Bears have 9 NFL championships.  We have 2 Super Bowl appearances (most recently in 2006) and 1 Championship.  We have had GMs like Jim Finks, Jerry Vainisi, Bill Tobin and Jerry Angelo.  We've also had Bobby Watson, Phil Emery and Ryan Pace.

At Head Coach, we've had George Halas, Mike Ditka, Lovie Smith and well... even Matt Nagy left with a win percentage above .500 (.523).  We've also had 9 head coaches that left with less than .500 (including Eberflus, John Fox and Jim Dooley.  We won't mention Abe Gibron. Ever.

Mike Ditka lost as many playoff games as he won. Only Papa Bear won more than he lost.

The Chicago Bears drafted John Thierry, Rashaan Salaam, Curtis Enis, Alonzo Spellman, Marc Columbo, Chris Williams, Rex Grossman, David, Terrell, Michael Haynes, Cade McNown, Stan Thomas, Shea McClellin and Kevin White in the 1st Round.

They also drafted Dick Butkus, Gale Sayers, Dan Hampton, Jim McMahon, Otis Wilson, Jim Covert, Neal Anderson, Brian Urlacher, Tommie Harris, Greg Olsen, Kyle Long, Roquan Smith, and Walter Payton.

The Chicago Bears have the MOST players in the Hall of Fame.  39 players.  Packers are next at 33.

And I believe Caleb Williams will be on that second list when it's all said-and-done.

And the sky is the limit with Rome Odunze.

So we're somewhere ... I don't know... one end to the other?  Somewhere in the middle?

I guess maybe I haven't answered the question.

Yes, there are levels the Bears haven't reached that other teams have and they're avoidable.

[beareylo]

Bloody hail "@matsellah" you really did your homework on that post. Bravo old boy bravo.👏