Bears vs Vikings Thread. Time to move on from GB game.

[PackerNation - BANNED]

Anyway...

Can the Bears beat the Vikings? It would be nice. The Pack have a tough one against San Fran.

I mean, the Bears schedule is no more difficult than the Packers. Let's get this one Sunday. Shake up the division a bit.

Bears D vs. Vikings D- Advantage Bears

Bears offense vs. Vikings offense- Advantage Minny

Bears Special Teams vs. Vikings Special Teams-Advantage Vikings

Bears QB vs. Vikings QB- A wash

Bears coaching staff vs. Vikings staff- Advantage Vikings.

A win is doable. A win and the doubters here will perk up and stop claiming they want to lose.

[The Marshall Plan]

Nov 18, 2024 17:25:19 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

I hope CW keeps moving up and somehow we also lose every game. I want to see Flus completely humiliated and yes he fully deserves it.

Agreed.

The best thing that happens is we lose every game 27-24 where Caleb gets a couple TDs, learns and improves every week but we lose because of coaching blunders.

[shark86]

Flus takes the week off to go to an underground retreat, and OD's on Ayahuasca. He comes back high as a starlink satellite (FYI that's a LOT higher than a kite) and can't coach to his normal abilities, so he "screws up" and coaches like a normal coach and wins the game.

And then I wake up from my antihistamine and vodka induced nap and realize it was all a dream, but I'm still living in a nightmare with yet another Bears loss we should have won.

[JABF]

Nov 18, 2024 23:53:36 GMT -6 davidl said:

Nov 18, 2024 23:31:01 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Ok, whatever.  I've been through the reasons why this isn't gonna happen and is a bad idea anyway.

But die on that hill if you want.

You have your hill, too.  2025 is going to be the decisive year for Poles. If we are around .500 and 3rd or 4th again in the division,  he SHOULD be fired if McCaskey/Warren are true to their own professed standards.

The Lions were 3-13-1 in 2021 — as bad or worse than the 2021 Bears team that won 7 games.  

Since then, Lions, Packers, Texans have kicked his ass even with his supremely lucky #1 picks two years in a row.

One thing to consider about 2025 is the fact that a new head coach will undoubtedly bring in his own schemes, playbook and coaches who will want players that fit them.  Vrabel has been mentioned as one of the best HC candidates.  Vrabel runs a 3-4 defense.  We have seen this play out a number of times over many years here, when we flip from a 3-4 to a 4-3 or back the other way.  It has always caused a fit problem and some new players are needed.  And those coaches have ultimately gotten their new players.  It's not just a defense thing... it's true on offense too. 

I guarantee you that if we hire Ben Johnson from the Lions, he isn't going to stick with players like D'Andre Swift on offense (and he shouldn't).  Fans are clamoring for the OL to be fixed in 2025, but that may change when other positions are valued higher by the new coaches.  Should the team be better in 2025?  Sure.  But don't expect super bowl ready.  2027 becomes the new 2025 I think, as far as super bowl ready team.  Heck, there's no 100% guarantee that Caleb Williams will fit the new guys plans either.  If Caleb fizzles out like Trubs and Fields, then we're looking at starting the QB search all over again.  

This is the cost to an organization that continually screws up the coaching hire and has to start over again.  It kills an organization to constantly be flushing coaches and starting over.  I see the need to do it.  But I also see there is no free lunch here.  It is starting over with 24 or more new coaches - complete with new playbook, schemes and transition challenges (especially for our rookie QB1).  

[bearsinhouston]

Nov 19, 2024 16:16:44 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 18, 2024 23:53:36 GMT -6 davidl said:

You have your hill, too.  2025 is going to be the decisive year for Poles. If we are around .500 and 3rd or 4th again in the division,  he SHOULD be fired if McCaskey/Warren are true to their own professed standards.

The Lions were 3-13-1 in 2021 — as bad or worse than the 2021 Bears team that won 7 games.  

Since then, Lions, Packers, Texans have kicked his ass even with his supremely lucky #1 picks two years in a row.

One thing to consider about 2025 is the fact that a new head coach will undoubtedly bring in his own schemes, playbook and coaches who will want players that fit them.  Vrabel has been mentioned as one of the best HC candidates.  Vrabel runs a 3-4 defense.  We have seen this play out a number of times over many years here, when we flip from a 3-4 to a 4-3 or back the other way.  It has always caused a fit problem and some new players are needed.  And those coaches have ultimately gotten their new players.  It's not just a defense thing... it's true on offense too. 

I guarantee you that if we hire Ben Johnson from the Lions, he isn't going to stick with players like D'Andre Swift on offense (and he shouldn't).  Fans are clamoring for the OL to be fixed in 2025, but that may change when other positions are valued higher by the new coaches.  Should the team be better in 2025?  Sure.  But don't expect super bowl ready.  2027 becomes the new 2025 I think, as far as super bowl ready team.  Heck, there's no 100% guarantee that Caleb Williams will fit the new guys plans either.  If Caleb fizzles out like Trubs and Fields, then we're looking at starting the QB search all over again.  

This is the cost to an organization that continually screws up the coaching hire and has to start over again.  It kills an organization to constantly be flushing coaches and starting over.  I see the need to do it.  But I also see there is no free lunch here.  It is starting over with 24 or more new coaches - complete with new playbook, schemes and transition challenges (especially for our rookie QB1).  

It's brutal on any organization. It takes time to ramp people up. To get them comfortable with their responsibilities and each other. And it can take years to learn the little tricks and efficiencies to make things run better than your competition. Having to constantly restart gives everyone else you are competing with a leg up. No Bueno

[mpbears68]

Nov 19, 2024 16:16:44 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 18, 2024 23:53:36 GMT -6 davidl said:

You have your hill, too.  2025 is going to be the decisive year for Poles. If we are around .500 and 3rd or 4th again in the division,  he SHOULD be fired if McCaskey/Warren are true to their own professed standards.

The Lions were 3-13-1 in 2021 — as bad or worse than the 2021 Bears team that won 7 games.  

Since then, Lions, Packers, Texans have kicked his ass even with his supremely lucky #1 picks two years in a row.

One thing to consider about 2025 is the fact that a new head coach will undoubtedly bring in his own schemes, playbook and coaches who will want players that fit them.  Vrabel has been mentioned as one of the best HC candidates.  Vrabel runs a 3-4 defense.  We have seen this play out a number of times over many years here, when we flip from a 3-4 to a 4-3 or back the other way.  It has always caused a fit problem and some new players are needed.  And those coaches have ultimately gotten their new players.  It's not just a defense thing... it's true on offense too. 

I guarantee you that if we hire Ben Johnson from the Lions, he isn't going to stick with players like D'Andre Swift on offense (and he shouldn't).  Fans are clamoring for the OL to be fixed in 2025, but that may change when other positions are valued higher by the new coaches.  Should the team be better in 2025?  Sure.  But don't expect super bowl ready.  2027 becomes the new 2025 I think, as far as super bowl ready team.  Heck, there's no 100% guarantee that Caleb Williams will fit the new guys plans either.  If Caleb fizzles out like Trubs and Fields, then we're looking at starting the QB search all over again.  

This is the cost to an organization that continually screws up the coaching hire and has to start over again.  It kills an organization to constantly be flushing coaches and starting over.  I see the need to do it.  But I also see there is no free lunch here.  It is starting over with 24 or more new coaches - complete with new playbook, schemes and transition challenges (especially for our rookie QB1).  

I can't wait for the post-Black Monday press conference when Poles has to answer questions about how he eff'd up the coaching hire.  I wanna see him squirm and be made uncomfortable.  He should be.  Two biggest things a GM does is hire a HC and draft a QB.  GMs who miss on those things don't tend to keep their jobs long-term.

I didn't realize Vrabel ran a 3-4.  It's not a deal-breaker for me but yeah I admit that it's not ideal.  

[davidl]

Nov 19, 2024 17:46:59 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

Nov 19, 2024 16:16:44 GMT -6 JABF said:

One thing to consider about 2025 is the fact that a new head coach will undoubtedly bring in his own schemes, playbook and coaches who will want players that fit them.  Vrabel has been mentioned as one of the best HC candidates.  Vrabel runs a 3-4 defense.  We have seen this play out a number of times over many years here, when we flip from a 3-4 to a 4-3 or back the other way.  It has always caused a fit problem and some new players are needed.  And those coaches have ultimately gotten their new players.  It's not just a defense thing... it's true on offense too. 

I guarantee you that if we hire Ben Johnson from the Lions, he isn't going to stick with players like D'Andre Swift on offense (and he shouldn't).  Fans are clamoring for the OL to be fixed in 2025, but that may change when other positions are valued higher by the new coaches.  Should the team be better in 2025?  Sure.  But don't expect super bowl ready.  2027 becomes the new 2025 I think, as far as super bowl ready team.  Heck, there's no 100% guarantee that Caleb Williams will fit the new guys plans either.  If Caleb fizzles out like Trubs and Fields, then we're looking at starting the QB search all over again.  

This is the cost to an organization that continually screws up the coaching hire and has to start over again.  It kills an organization to constantly be flushing coaches and starting over.  I see the need to do it.  But I also see there is no free lunch here.  It is starting over with 24 or more new coaches - complete with new playbook, schemes and transition challenges (especially for our rookie QB1).  

It's brutal on any organization. It takes time to ramp people up. To get them comfortable with their responsibilities and each other. And it can take years to learn the little tricks and efficiencies to make things run better than your competition. Having to constantly restart gives everyone else you are competing with a leg up. No Bueno

At this rate, we barely have time to be Super Bowl ready before all of Poles high-priced contracts (Johnson, Moore, Sweat, Edmunds) run out as well as the Williams, Odunze, Wright, Etc. rookie contracts. At tha point, we might be back into “rebuild” mode, hopefully with a new GM.

[bearsinhouston]

Nov 20, 2024 13:50:05 GMT -6 davidl said:

Nov 19, 2024 17:46:59 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

It's brutal on any organization. It takes time to ramp people up. To get them comfortable with their responsibilities and each other. And it can take years to learn the little tricks and efficiencies to make things run better than your competition. Having to constantly restart gives everyone else you are competing with a leg up. No Bueno

At this rate, we barely have time to be Super Bowl ready before all of Poles high-priced contracts (Johnson, Moore, Sweat, Edmunds) run out as well as the Williams, Odunze, Wright, Etc. rookie contracts. At tha point, we might be back into “rebuild” mode, hopefully with a new GM.

It cuts deep. When you think you are moving forward on a rebuild and you get the HC wrong, it's a big hit. I think they can recover quickly if they get a "insert and go" HC like a Shanahan or Harbaugh but chances are slim to none. Any guy coming in and learning the ropes probably means a two year ramp. Not to say they can't have a good first year, but to be hitting on all cylinders while learning how to be a HC.... I guess it's hard to say how long. The Bears have never really done it successfully. Other than Ditka. He was a first year HC

[mpbears68]

Nov 20, 2024 13:50:05 GMT -6 davidl said:

Nov 19, 2024 17:46:59 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

It's brutal on any organization. It takes time to ramp people up. To get them comfortable with their responsibilities and each other. And it can take years to learn the little tricks and efficiencies to make things run better than your competition. Having to constantly restart gives everyone else you are competing with a leg up. No Bueno

At this rate, we barely have time to be Super Bowl ready before all of Poles high-priced contracts (Johnson, Moore, Sweat, Edmunds) run out as well as the Williams, Odunze, Wright, Etc. rookie contracts. At tha point, we might be back into “rebuild” mode, hopefully with a new GM.

David, just a couple years ago during the teardown season all you did is complain endlessly about Poles jettisoning high-priced contracts.

Despite the fact that that's what a teardown is and that most of those high-priced contracts at the time were for players who were injured, past their prime, or both.

So which is it? 


Newsflash:  Good veteran players command big contracts.  As long as they are still productive and not way over the hill, that's the price of doing business.

[mpbears68]

Nov 20, 2024 13:59:46 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

Nov 20, 2024 13:50:05 GMT -6 davidl said:

At this rate, we barely have time to be Super Bowl ready before all of Poles high-priced contracts (Johnson, Moore, Sweat, Edmunds) run out as well as the Williams, Odunze, Wright, Etc. rookie contracts. At tha point, we might be back into “rebuild” mode, hopefully with a new GM.

It cuts deep. When you think you are moving forward on a rebuild and you get the HC wrong, it's a big hit. I think they can recover quickly if they get a "insert and go" HC like a Shanahan or Harbaugh but chances are slim to none. Any guy coming in and learning the ropes probably means a two year ramp. Not so say they can't have a good first year, but to be hitting on all cylinders while learning how to be a HC.... I guess it's hard to say how long. The Bears have never really done it successfully. Other than Ditka. He was a first year HC

Yeah that's why I am leaning towards someone like Vrabel right now.  It's also another reason Harbaugh was such a no-brainer last winter.  

We are in a rookie QB contract window and I'm nervous about wasting another year while some coordinator-turned-HC is still learning how to manage games (something Flus still hasn't).  

If by some miracle San Fran fires Shanahan, he's an absolute must-get who would check all the boxes.