Bobby Massie - can he get better?

[AlexM]

Sept 14, 2016 14:04:46 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Just because I'm a bit obsessive from time to time, I checked each of Brock's drop backs in the first half.

Houston QB drops

1. play action roll out to right
2. 3 step drop
3. shotgun 2 step drop (about 2 yards-scrambles immediately)
4. play action 7 yard drop—picked by Porter
5. 5 step drop on a screen
6. shotgun 2 step drop
7. play action 10 yard drop
8. shotgun 2 step drop
9. shotgun 2 step drop
10. shotgun 2 step drop
11. shotgun 2 step drop
12. under center 2 step drop
13. shotgun 2 step drop
14. under center 5 step drop
15. shotgun 2 step drop
16. shotgun 2 step drop with a 3rd bounce at the end
17. shotgun 2 step drop, then moves up and to his left away from pressure
18. under center 3 step drop
19. shotgun 2 step drop
20. shotgun 2 step drop, sacked

Pretty consistent with 2 step drops and being 6 ft 8 in, thats about a yard per step when you see it on tape. Don't think it means anything, just my OCD going off.

Nice job Brasil

[brasilbear]

Sept 14, 2016 14:05:35 GMT -6 AlexM said:

Sept 14, 2016 14:04:46 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Just because I'm a bit obsessive from time to time, I checked each of Brock's drop backs in the first half.

Houston QB drops

.......
Pretty consistent with 2 step drops and being 6 ft 8 in, thats about a yard per step when you see it on tape. Don't think it means anything, just my OCD going off.

Nice job Brasil

What is does show is that O'Brian wants the ball out quick. Brock pretty consistently goes step-step-throw. Even on the shotgun throws, its snap-step-step-throw. The Porter pick was an ugly throw. It appears on video that Brock doesn't look anywhere else but at Hopkins. Stared him down. Ugly.

And now I've hi-jacked the thread, my apologies.

[butkus3595]

I gotta be honest...I watched the video Seqq34 posted....Massie didn't really play that bad considering who he was going against. I thought he held up pretty well against guys off the edge, and the one sack that you could pin directly on him was an edge rusher way wide of the tight end. To me thats a protection issue. Thats a lot asking the tackle to get all the way out there on a block without a chip from the tight end to slow his progress and give the tackle time to get over there. Other than that he looked pretty decent to me. A lot of the hits were because Jay had no friggen pocket to step up into...so maybe Long should take a look in the mirror. In fact one where Jay got blown up it was because Long got put on his friggen ass.

I think Massie is getting a little too much grief here in my opinion and that film backed it up.

[brasilbear]

Sept 14, 2016 14:48:34 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I gotta be honest...I watched the video Seqq34 posted....Massie didn't really play that bad considering who he was going against. I thought he held up pretty well against guys off the edge, and the one sack that you could pin directly on him was an edge rusher way wide of the tight end. To me thats a protection issue. Thats a lot asking the tackle to get all the way out there on a block without a chip from the tight end to slow his progress and give the tackle time to get over there. Other than that he looked pretty decent to me. A lot of the hits were because Jay had no friggen pocket to step up into...so maybe Long should take a look in the mirror. In fact one where Jay got blown up it was because Long got put on his friggen ass.

I think Massie is getting a little too much grief here in my opinion and that film backed it up.

Thanks for putting the thread back on track. I thought Massie played better after a 2nd and 3rd look. There were a few plays in the running game where he threw Watt to the ground. Amazing. When is the next game the OL plays against a front 7 this good? 

If I have time later I'll check Massie's play for the whole game from video. But standard disclaimer, with out knowing the play calls and the blocking responsibilities I'm making guesses.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2016 11:01:45 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I guess it all depends which scouting reports you read. I've seen others saying his foot work is adequate. What I think is going to need to happen is what was mentioned at the end of this scouting report. Against elite speed rushers Massie will need a chip from a back or tight end, other than that he should be fine. I think a lot of this is an over reaction to week 1 and people still not taking into consideration the fact we went up against what is considered one of the best defenses in the league with a collection of some of the best pass rushers in the league.

Good read and it is a current pro scouting report.  Let me know where you find those if you can.

I agree.  I think that last sentence says it all so maybe we wait and see how well it all progresses but it still leaves me wondering if this weakness is well known why didn't they scheme some help for him on Sunday? 

It does little good to send a TE or RB out in the pass pattern if Cutler has no time to even pick him up if he does get open before the outside rusher nails him.  Also why no screen passes to defeat that all out rush?

Again, it seem to me that Loggains had only half a game plan prepared to work from.  Once Houston started playing some seriously aggressive defense he had nothing to dial up to counter it.  I really can't recall even seeing him put a TE out there with Massie much if at all.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2016 11:36:22 GMT -6 seqq34 said:

www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016091102/2016/REG1/bears@texans#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000700248&tab=videos

I can't speak for his run blocking, since i have no video of those...but here is every pass play from nfl.com
Not saying Massie looked good...i agree with JABF that he looks slow...but did he get the job done?

I say yes...he didn't look pretty doing it, but considering the Defense they faced, he's on a new team working with new guys...he/they should get better.

Honestly you can only pin one sack on Massie imo...sure you can throw in a second one if you want to count the 4th qtr one, but i would then ask why is Jay dropping 4-5 yards back, out of the shotgun LoL 


Just realized nfl videos not supported lol here's the link  

www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016091102/2016/REG1/bears@texans#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000700248&tab=videos

Thanks for posting this seqq.

All I can see is Massie consistently getting beat on nearly every outside rush from the very first drive of the game on and I'm still in the 2nd Q.  As I recall it got worse as the game wore on and he tired. I'll know more after I watch all of it and can watch it several times but clearly he cannot handle speed on the edge.  Even when he does manage to steer his guy wide eventually the rusher escapes him with a shoulder dip and heads straight for Cutler.  That's what I'm seeing at any rate.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2016 12:57:26 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Sept 14, 2016 11:36:22 GMT -6 seqq34 said:

www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016091102/2016/REG1/bears@texans#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000700248&tab=videos

I can't speak for his run blocking, since i have no video of those...but here is every pass play from nfl.com
Not saying Massie looked good...i agree with JABF that he looks slow...but did he get the job done?

I say yes...he didn't look pretty doing it, but considering the Defense they faced, he's on a new team working with new guys...he/they should get better.

Honestly you can only pin one sack on Massie imo...sure you can throw in a second one if you want to count the 4th qtr one, but i would then ask why is Jay dropping 4-5 yards back, out of the shotgun LoL 


Just realized nfl videos not supported lol here's the link  

www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016091102/2016/REG1/bears@texans#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000700248&tab=videos

You do know that every QB retreats 3-4 yards on a shotgun snap right? Brock goes from standing on the 42 yard line to standing on the 39 yardline, so a drop of of 3 yards.





Yes, Jay retreat 5 yards, but its normal to a QB to drop back out of a shotgun snap. Lets not let the Jay hate cover for the fact that the OL couldn't block on Sunday. That may have been the best DL as far as pass rushing that they will face all season. 

I also timed all the sacks with the game clock, and the only sack that lasted more than 3 seconds was the one where the pocket broke down and Jay rolled to his right almost back to the LOS. 

I hate having to defend Jay, but the performance of the OFF on Sunday can't be totally pinned on Jay (and I know you aren't saying that, so its more of a general comment.) 

Yeah, I'm not sure where all this Jay holds the ball to long comes from any longer.  That may have been true back in the Martz era but with good reason since Martz' passing game worked off 7 step drops and downfield passing.  Those routes take time to develop and Jay never has been one to let go of a pass until he can see his guy is open or about to come open.  That's just him.

By Trestman's second season almost all of the downfield stuff was being eschewed for more of a 3-5 step dink and dunk WCO style offense and he was still getting sacked too often.  I'm not saying he never holds the ball too long but then that could be said of nearly every NFL QB and those are usually coverage sacks where there's just nowhere to go with the ball period.

I don't think there's any doubt that he's improved as a QB and as a leader of the offense but some will still cling on old ideas and criticisms so doggedly that they refuse to see those improvements.  And I'm not leveling this at anyone in particular.  It's simply something I notice happening anytime we don't win.

[butkus3595]

Sept 14, 2016 16:12:06 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Sept 14, 2016 11:36:22 GMT -6 seqq34 said:

www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016091102/2016/REG1/bears@texans#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000700248&tab=videos

I can't speak for his run blocking, since i have no video of those...but here is every pass play from nfl.com
Not saying Massie looked good...i agree with JABF that he looks slow...but did he get the job done?

I say yes...he didn't look pretty doing it, but considering the Defense they faced, he's on a new team working with new guys...he/they should get better.

Honestly you can only pin one sack on Massie imo...sure you can throw in a second one if you want to count the 4th qtr one, but i would then ask why is Jay dropping 4-5 yards back, out of the shotgun LoL 


Just realized nfl videos not supported lol here's the link  

www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016091102/2016/REG1/bears@texans#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000700248&tab=videos

Thanks for posting this seqq.

All I can see is Massie consistently getting beat on nearly every outside rush from the very first drive of the game on and I'm still in the 2nd Q.  As I recall it got worse as the game wore on and he tired. I'll know more after I watch all of it and can watch it several times but clearly he cannot handle speed on the edge.  Even when he does manage to steer his guy wide eventually the rusher escapes him with a shoulder dip and heads straight for Cutler.  That's what I'm seeing at any rate.

See...what you call getting beat I call a decent pass set. He forces the rusher up field and past the qb...the qb is supposed to step up into the pocket. The problem was a good amount of times there was no pocket to step up into. Watch it again...he doesn't get beat. In fact I would say he was only really BEAT once.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2016 14:48:34 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I gotta be honest...I watched the video Seqq34 posted....Massie didn't really play that bad considering who he was going against. I thought he held up pretty well against guys off the edge, and the one sack that you could pin directly on him was an edge rusher way wide of the tight end. To me thats a protection issue. Thats a lot asking the tackle to get all the way out there on a block without a chip from the tight end to slow his progress and give the tackle time to get over there. Other than that he looked pretty decent to me. A lot of the hits were because Jay had no friggen pocket to step up into...so maybe Long should take a look in the mirror. In fact one where Jay got blown up it was because Long got put on his friggen ass.

I think Massie is getting a little too much grief here in my opinion and that film backed it up.

I guess we analyzed it from a different perspective then.  He's getting beat by speed on nearly every rush and even when some of those didn't result in a sack they did in Cutler taking some hard hits after he released.

I don't mean to be a jerk but how can so many writers and analysts grade the guy as having pass blocked poorly and given him an F for the game and yet here some sit here saying "well it wasn't too bad".  Were all of us watching the same game?

Even his more recent scouting dings him for that very thing and Houston attacked him with it on nearly every passing down because of it and true to his scouting report he did not handle it well at all.  Just because not every play resulted in a sack doesn't mean there wasn't pressure or hits coming from that right side nearly every passing down.  It's difficult not to see that.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2016 16:33:29 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Sept 14, 2016 16:12:06 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Thanks for posting this seqq.

All I can see is Massie consistently getting beat on nearly every outside rush from the very first drive of the game on and I'm still in the 2nd Q.  As I recall it got worse as the game wore on and he tired. I'll know more after I watch all of it and can watch it several times but clearly he cannot handle speed on the edge.  Even when he does manage to steer his guy wide eventually the rusher escapes him with a shoulder dip and heads straight for Cutler.  That's what I'm seeing at any rate.

See...what you call getting beat I call a decent pass set. He forces the rusher up field and past the qb...the qb is supposed to step up into the pocket. The problem was a good amount of times there was no pocket to step up into. Watch it again...he doesn't get beat. In fact I would say he was only really BEAT once.

I guess we define proper protection different then.  He forces the rush to the outside but then loses his containment on him, the guy dips a shoulder, and wham.....he heads straight for Cutler. In same cases Cutler gets the throw off and avoids the hit but not all.  He got hit 13 times and more of those came from Massie's man than anyone else.

On the one clip where Long pancakes Watt he loses his contain when Watt puts a spin move on him and had Long not peeled back to take him out that's another sack or a hit.  Maybe that it's just that our expectations of him are different butkus.  While I see a better run blocker in him than others we've had at RT so far I don't see any better pass blocking based on how I think it should be done.

Not once so far in my review of that video has he ever simply stood his man up or taken him around the back of the pockets keeping contact and stone wall blocked him throughout the entire play.  Now to me that's proper technique.