Fox Regrets Not Challenging Third and One QB Sneak..........

[datreebearz]

Sept 15, 2016 12:17:31 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Yep.  I'm still confused about which play we're talking about here.  Was it the one just before the TD where Glenn was injured and had to come out or a different one?

It was the play were the guy caught the ball falling out of bounds with maybe a one toe and didn't really have possession of ball until way after toe touch on the ground. Houston rushed to line of scrimmage and ran a quick play. 

[Deleted]

I have never viewed Fox as a thinking man's coach. I do not think he is very good at strategic chess matches. This has always been the reason I wondered if he would ever be able to win a SB. He is a guy that can bring in good assistants and can motivate players and bring in a certain attitude. When we hired him, that was what we needed, so I am ok with him. When I think we have gotten as far as he can take us, then I'll be calling for a new coach, but I honestly think there is a lot further he can take us before we hit that crossroads.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2016 7:32:11 GMT -6 datreebearz said:

Sept 15, 2016 12:17:31 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Yep.  I'm still confused about which play we're talking about here.  Was it the one just before the TD where Glenn was injured and had to come out or a different one?

It was the play were the guy caught the ball falling out of bounds with maybe a one toe and didn't really have possession of ball until way after toe touch on the ground. Houston rushed to line of scrimmage and ran a quick play. 

Right before their TD or before that?

[datreebearz]

Sept 16, 2016 20:04:10 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Right before their TD or before that?

It kept a drive alive to a TD drive I want say it occurred around Bears 30yd line. 

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2016 18:38:51 GMT -6 @bearsinhouston said:

I have never viewed Fox as a thinking man's coach. I do not think he is very good at strategic chess matches. This has always been the reason I wondered if he would ever be able to win a SB. He is a guy that can bring in good assistants and can motivate players and bring in a certain attitude. When we hired him, that was what we needed, so I am ok with him. When I think we have gotten as far as he can take us, then I'll be calling for a new coach, but I honestly think there is a lot further he can take us before we hit that crossroads.

Based on my experience with him here I would tend to say the same but I'll also admit I really don't know much about him prior to his coming to Denver.  Despite having a devastating defense while he was here he also had Payton Manning and John Elway's willingness to spend as much as he could afford cap wise on the players Fox needed to win Super Bowls. 

That's an advantage he doesn't have now.  No matter how much better he gets Jay Cutler will never be another Payton Manning and I doubt Ryan Pace will spend on FAs like Elway did.

I think at the heart of it I feel almost exactly as you do.  Fox was the right guy to hire to help rebuild a defense that was pathetic and to instill a different culture than Trestman's cupcakes, kool-aid, and kumbiya by the camp fire light approach.  What concerns me though is whether he a bit to old school and maybe also just a bit too old period to see it through even though we know he badly wants to.

Some of his responses when he being grilled by the media are somewhat beyond just being intentionally evasive.  Some are a little disconnected from reality like saying he feels the running the ball is an "aggressive" approach to offense when nearly the entire rest of the NFL would tend to disagree.  If it was a running league any longer then RBs like Jordan Howard wouldn't be 4th round picks and marginally prepared QBs like Jared Goff wouldn't be the first overall pick in the NFL draft and worth a king's ransom in picks to trade up for.

I don't want to say he's losing it but at times I don't get the impression he's acutely aware of all that's happening with his team either.  He strikes me a bit like a college professor I had who had tenure but let his teaching assistant to most of the teaching while he wrote his next book.  The real question I guess is whether or not he's dynamic enough to take this team up the ladder to being more than just competitive or whether once he gets there the ascent will slow or stop altogether.

I still think we're gonna need better and less conservative offensive coaching to get there.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2016 20:19:27 GMT -6 datreebearz said:

Sept 16, 2016 20:04:10 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Right before their TD or before that?

It kept a drive alive to a TD drive I want say it occurred around Bears 30yd line. 

Hmmm.....I can think of a couple of those and one came on the play just before their last TD.  The trouble I have is I no way to review the game right now.  All I'm left with is my recall shaky though it is and my impressions which are that Foxy isn't not a quick thinker on the sidelines.  He seems very methodical or at least he has been lately.

Maybe part of the problem is with his team in the booth and getting the proper info to him in a timely manner.  If so that needs to be fixed too.  So far I can't tell but at least he knows he blew a badly needed challenge of that QB sneak so maybe that's a wake call for him and his booth crew.  He can claim all he wants that it wasn't a game changer in a 23-14 loss but it was and we know that it was even if he won't admit that.

Anyway that game is history but it leaves us with some things to be more aware of as the season progresses.  One mistake is just that.  A whole series of them is a trend.

[datreebearz]

Sept 16, 2016 20:59:14 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Hmmm.....I can think of a couple of those and one came on the play just before their last TD.  The trouble I have is I no way to review the game right now.  All I'm left with is my recall shaky though it is and my impressions which are that Foxy isn't not a quick thinker on the sidelines.  He seems very methodical or at least he has been lately.

Maybe part of the problem is with his team in the booth and getting the proper info to him in a timely manner.  If so that needs to be fixed too.  So far I can't tell but at least he knows he blew a badly needed challenge of that QB sneak so maybe that's a wake call for him and his booth crew.  He can claim all he wants that it wasn't a game changer in a 23-14 loss but it was and we know that it was even if he won't admit that.

Anyway that game is history but it leaves us with some things to be more aware of as the season progresses.  One mistake is just that.  A whole series of them is a trend.

I agree, things can't be changed from last week but changes can be made for next game. As we all know sports is all about keeping the mo when you have it keep it with all your might. Fox lost it on QB sneak really failed for Houston but blown by Fox for never giving a coach's fight for it, no mo for you. Hard to believe Fox is consider some old rough tough coach when he allows things like this to occur which he has options to do something about. He needs a little of his father's Navy Seal killer instinct in him or he'll continue to get pushed around by the refs. 

[dachuckster]

Sept 16, 2016 18:38:51 GMT -6 @bearsinhouston said:

I have never viewed Fox as a thinking man's coach. I do not think he is very good at strategic chess matches. This has always been the reason I wondered if he would ever be able to win a SB. He is a guy that can bring in good assistants and can motivate players and bring in a certain attitude. When we hired him, that was what we needed, so I am ok with him. When I think we have gotten as far as he can take us, then I'll be calling for a new coach, but I honestly think there is a lot further he can take us before we hit that crossroads.

My hope for Fox is that he will be a CEO type of coach.  Set the strategy, find key mangers (coaches) and contributors and then let them do their jobs.  The most successful business organizations follow that model.  So, if Loggains doesn't work out for example, get someone new.

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2016 15:31:03 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Sept 16, 2016 18:38:51 GMT -6 @bearsinhouston said:

I have never viewed Fox as a thinking man's coach. I do not think he is very good at strategic chess matches. This has always been the reason I wondered if he would ever be able to win a SB. He is a guy that can bring in good assistants and can motivate players and bring in a certain attitude. When we hired him, that was what we needed, so I am ok with him. When I think we have gotten as far as he can take us, then I'll be calling for a new coach, but I honestly think there is a lot further he can take us before we hit that crossroads.

My hope for Fox is that he will be a CEO type of coach.  Set the strategy, find key mangers (coaches) and contributors and then let them do their jobs.  The most successful business organizations follow that model.  So, if Loggains doesn't work out for example, get someone new.

I'm kinda thinkin' he already is.  While promoting Loggains made the most sense in the short run whether it stays that way remains to be seen.  I think a lot of it will depend on Cutler's continued success under him.  If the offense fails and he and Pace decide to start over with a new QB I'd say there's a very good chance it will be with a new OC as well.  From now on it's Cutler and Loggains who are kinda joined at the hip.

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2016 16:43:29 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Sept 17, 2016 15:31:03 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

My hope for Fox is that he will be a CEO type of coach.  Set the strategy, find key mangers (coaches) and contributors and then let them do their jobs.  The most successful business organizations follow that model.  So, if Loggains doesn't work out for example, get someone new.

I'm kinda thinkin' he already is.  While promoting Loggains made the most sense in the short run whether it stays that way remains to be seen.  I think a lot of it will depend on Cutler's continued success under him.  If the offense fails and he and Pace decide to start over with a new QB I'd say there's a very good chance it will be with a new OC as well.  From now on it's Cutler and Loggains who are kinda joined at the hip.

I agree. That is how I envisioned him all along. The problem is that you can't just hire great coaches --- being the HC means you still have to be able to think on your feet fast. If you make a few wrong calls, you can throw the game. If he would have challenged the ball placement on that short yardage play, the momentum might have shifted back to us and who knows how that game ends.