ESPN Drops Bomb About Ryan Pace and John Fox

[blueshoes]

Kap is 'connected' and probably has some genuine inside info on this - it may not be 100% right , but I bet theres more than just a small grain of truth here .

So , whatever . Just like any bad marriage , eventually the strain will force a change and we'll move on from there .

[Deleted]

Sept 28, 2016 0:46:41 GMT -6 motm said:

Going around and doing a bit of research of Fox its surprising how much Manning saved his career.


- Fox's record without Manning was ( 87 wins - 92 loses )

- Fox has never had a back-to-back winning seasons as HC except when he has had Manning

- Fox has only put up 3 winning seasons as HC without Manning

- After putting up 1300 yards and 11 TD's as one of Mannings Favorite receivers, Fox let him walk to FA and got nothing when the Jets picked him up.

- After an 11 sack, pro-bowl season, Fox let Peppers walk to FA. The Panthers then went on to have their worst defense since Fox took over. Dropping from #9 overall to #26.

- He was also part of the brain-trust that traded their first round pick in 2010 to the 49ers for their 2nd and 4th round picks the year before.

- His best offense ever - without Manning - was 7th in the NFL. But mostly, with Carolina, they hovered in the bottom half on the NFL including: 26th in 2007, 27th in 2006, 30th in 2002, and 32 (worst) in 2011. So our 30th ranked O last year was not an anomaly.


After seeing this do you guys really want Fox here? I'm honestly thinking Pace was forced by Fox to drop some of these players. I wonder how much of the first round picks were even Pace's real choice? 



Why is it that he can hit a homerun on our 2nd round picks twice yet signing huge projects in the first. I think there is more going on upstairs than what we know. 

The answer to that if I haven't already made it clear is no, I don't.  The only reason I felt anyway good about it at all was the need for an experienced HC to turn this team around quickly and to be able to attract a top shelf staff and some good FAs to build from quickly.  Like Lovie, Fox is usually well like by his players.

My eventual hope was that with the help of Fangio and Gase having gotten things back on track we might have been able to hold Gase with the promise of him taking over by year four coaxing Fox to step down by paying off his deal.  Everyone likes a 12 month severance package.  But there was no way Gase could turn down a HC job when offered that soon and we kinda knew that which also make me wonder if he should have been the guy unless we had some kind of commitment like I described.

My hope was also that Gase would have been able to either repair those year of damage to Cutler's game of he couldn't and we'd move on.  Well he did repair enough damage to at least instill confidence in Fox and Pace that he was their QB for the foreseeable future since his deal was only getting cheaper and it was on a pay as you go basis after 2016.  That was a real bonus for them.  Unfortunately it was Gase who moved on with job still not completely done either for Cutler or the offense.

Now I can't be sure of exactly what's wrong.  All I can do is make some educated guesses but other than his inexperience there really are no negatives to look at closely as far as Pace goes.  He seems for all I can tell to be a very open and honest guy which is the antithesis of "Slick" Angelo and I think he's far more competent and thorough than Emery and isn't one to out think himself or wander outside of the box.  He has a plan.

Fox on the other hand has made a very long NFL coaching career out of being mostly average but also knowing how to manipulate and work people and it worked OK for him for a very long time 'til he ran into a hard egg in Elway who wasn't gonna get "worked" any longer.  Elway is very much like Belicheat with whom the Broncs seem to compete like we do GB.  With him it's there's winning and then there's everything else that doesn't count.  He never really got over the shame of the first three SB losses 'til he finally won two back to back and then hung it up on a high note.

I guess we can all imagine how Elway felt after first having their asses kicked 43-8 in a Super Bowl when after being one and done in the playoffs the next year Fox's response was what's wrong with winning the division.  It didn't sit to well with Elway. In that way Fox very Lovie like as well.  Sometimes I don't think he gets that there is not "just good enough" to get by with forever.  So to be honest whatever we do I'm done with Fox.  He not my guy nor is he a HC I believe is right for the Bears any longer.  Not even one more day frankly.

That's why I suggested Pace immediately distance himself from Fox, go back to his plan, and tell the McCaskey's he needs to have the option to fire Fox and hire his own HC.  That's the only way we'll ever know what or who the real problem is here but whatever they're doing now isn't working and Fox is failing completely as a turn around specialist and he may be mucking up the works for Pace and his long range plans as well.

[Whisky Beer Bob]

I agree with ya Soul about FO vs Coaching staff. Thou I do wonder how much allegiance does Fangio really have for Fox. They are both defensive minded BUT Fangio was with the 49ers so he hasn't exactly built a great bond with Fox. Fangio could also be smelling what Pace is cooking (lol not sure why mind went there) and sees the possiblity of himself getting a shot at the HC title. Fang must have a few Offensive minded pals that he can make a pitch too..
I feel silly talking about all this, after all we are only 3 games into the season and my new found optimism wants me to believe we can still turn around this lost ship.

[brasilbear]

If true that the higher-ups told Pace he had to hire Fox, this would be the third time in a row that an incoming GM was stuck with a guy he didn't want. Angelo was fored to hangon to Jureon, Emery to Lovie and now Pace with Fox. What was successful about the first two times that made the McCaskys think this was a good idea?

I've been ranting about Fox since he got hired, but a little bity tiny part of me us starting to feel bad for the guy. Tiny part, Soul, a tiny tiny tiny tiny part. I've mentioned MotM facts on various platforms and was getting ready to post that again. He's a media creation as a HC who got lucky with elite pass rushers and QBs he signed as FAs. Out side of that....nothing. He's Lovie Smith.

[JABF]

There is undoubtedly immense pressure on everyone after the winless start to the season.  Under that kind of pressure it is understandable that cracks appear on the team.  Pace and Fox need to sit down privately and clear the air - and finish this season as best they can.  If they don't, then both may end up being gone, sooner rather than later.  Pace isn't 100% safe here, and Fox sure as heck isn't.

Pace doesn't survive a Fox firing without taking on significant collateral damage himself - because Fox was HIS hire.  Having to fire Fox would be a huge setback for this team - probably a few years due to the new coach will have his own schemes and need the people to perform in the new schemes.  We've seen this movie before and it ends ugly for the team.  Painful.

[dachuckster]

I think Kaplan's comment that Accorsi recommended that George McCaskey pair up a green rookie GM with a seasoned veteran coach is interesting. I use the terms "green rookie" and "seasoned veteran" just to frame it.

I can see a situation where Pace was presented with a very strong recommendation that he hire Fox. You can present this kind of option in a way where you do not actually say that you must do it without actually using those words.

If this in in fact how it came down, we could see Fox exit the Bears quickly (certainly by the end of the season) unless there is a real turn around. Pace would have absolutely no loyalty to Fox (again assuming Fox was effectively pushed on Pace as a job requirement).

Assuming this is all true and Fox gets the boot, who would be his replacement? It is a shame that Gase went to the Dolphins as I think he will be a solid HC on the league.

[brasilbear]

Sept 28, 2016 6:32:58 GMT -6 JABF said:

There is undoubtedly immense pressure on everyone after the winless start to the season.  Under that kind of pressure it is understandable that cracks appear on the team.  Pace and Fox need to sit down privately and clear the air - and finish this season as best they can.  If they don't, then both may end up being gone, sooner rather than later.  Pace isn't 100% safe here, and Fox sure as heck isn't.

Pace doesn't survive a Fox firing without taking on significant collateral damage himself - because Fox was HIS hire.  Having to fire Fox would be a huge setback for this team - probably a few years due to the new coach will have his own schemes and need the people to perform in the new schemes.  We've seen this movie before and it ends ugly for the team.  Painful.

Expect that isnt what is being talked about. Higher ups told him to hire Fox. Now if they told him to hire an experienced vcoach and he picked Fox, thats a different story. If he was told hire Fox, he's in the clear. He can walk into the post-season meetings and say I told you so.

[JABF]

Sept 28, 2016 7:16:03 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Sept 28, 2016 6:32:58 GMT -6 JABF said:

There is undoubtedly immense pressure on everyone after the winless start to the season.  Under that kind of pressure it is understandable that cracks appear on the team.  Pace and Fox need to sit down privately and clear the air - and finish this season as best they can.  If they don't, then both may end up being gone, sooner rather than later.  Pace isn't 100% safe here, and Fox sure as heck isn't.

Pace doesn't survive a Fox firing without taking on significant collateral damage himself - because Fox was HIS hire.  Having to fire Fox would be a huge setback for this team - probably a few years due to the new coach will have his own schemes and need the people to perform in the new schemes.  We've seen this movie before and it ends ugly for the team.  Painful.

Expect that isnt what is being talked about. Higher ups told him to hire Fox. Now if they told him to hire an experienced vcoach and he picked Fox, thats a different story. If he was told hire Fox, he's in the clear. He can walk into the post-season meetings and say I told you so.

I figure he's the GM.  This is his team.  These are his coaches.  These are his players.  And I like that old NFL saying, "You are who your record says you are."  We are a winless team, coming off of a 6-win season.  Not good.  Pace has to own some of that.  He is the GM.

[Deleted]

Sept 28, 2016 0:46:41 GMT -6 motm said:

Going around and doing a bit of research of Fox its surprising how much Manning saved his career.


- Fox's record without Manning was ( 87 wins - 92 loses )

- Fox has never had a back-to-back winning seasons as HC except when he has had Manning

- Fox has only put up 3 winning seasons as HC without Manning

- After putting up 1300 yards and 11 TD's as one of Mannings Favorite receivers, Fox let him walk to FA and got nothing when the Jets picked him up.

- After an 11 sack, pro-bowl season, Fox let Peppers walk to FA. The Panthers then went on to have their worst defense since Fox took over. Dropping from #9 overall to #26.

- He was also part of the brain-trust that traded their first round pick in 2010 to the 49ers for their 2nd and 4th round picks the year before.

- His best offense ever - without Manning - was 7th in the NFL. But mostly, with Carolina, they hovered in the bottom half on the NFL including: 26th in 2007, 27th in 2006, 30th in 2002, and 32 (worst) in 2011. So our 30th ranked O last year was not an anomaly.


After seeing this do you guys really want Fox here? I'm honestly thinking Pace was forced by Fox to drop some of these players. I wonder how much of the first round picks were even Pace's real choice? 



Why is it that he can hit a homerun on our 2nd round picks twice yet signing huge projects in the first. I think there is more going on upstairs than what we know. 

Not sure, but he'll Pace may have even let Forte, Slauson go to make it harder on Fox. Regardless of whether Fox was initially Paces guy, they seemed to be working together fine. Either the draft or personnel decisions changed that. Something is messed up.

[dachuckster]

Sept 28, 2016 7:16:03 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Sept 28, 2016 6:32:58 GMT -6 JABF said:

There is undoubtedly immense pressure on everyone after the winless start to the season.  Under that kind of pressure it is understandable that cracks appear on the team.  Pace and Fox need to sit down privately and clear the air - and finish this season as best they can.  If they don't, then both may end up being gone, sooner rather than later.  Pace isn't 100% safe here, and Fox sure as heck isn't.

Pace doesn't survive a Fox firing without taking on significant collateral damage himself - because Fox was HIS hire.  Having to fire Fox would be a huge setback for this team - probably a few years due to the new coach will have his own schemes and need the people to perform in the new schemes.  We've seen this movie before and it ends ugly for the team.  Painful.

Expect that isn't what is being talked about. Higher ups told him to hire Fox. Now if they told him to hire an experienced coach and he picked Fox, that's a different story. If he was told hire Fox, he's in the clear. He can walk into the post-season meetings and say I told you so.

That is what I am assuming as well.